[Chimera-users] Picking not working in RDS

Tue Mar 31 00:56:38 PDT 2015

Hi Tom,

No need to work on anything on your side. The problem is ours and with your help, we have a path forward. We'll explore our options on the virtual server.

Thanks,
Darrell

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 31, 2015, at 1:36 AM, Tom Goddard <goddard at sonic.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Darrell,
> 
>  Ok, that explains it. The virtual Windows machine is using the Microsoft GDI driver which is OpenGL 1.1 (the graphics standard from 1997). I have quite a few bug reports that ctrl-click selection does not work with the GDI driver. This driver is used when Windows does not support whatever (usually ancient) graphics hardware you have, so all rendering will be without hardware acceleration, so it will be extremely slow.  Also no modern OpenGL (like shader programs) can be used. I believe old Chimera versions worked with the GDI driver, but I’m not sure how old — maybe Chimera 1.6 or 1.5 before we started using GPU shader programs.  It is possible that I can fix ctrl-click selection to work with the GDI driver.  But I will have to think about whether it makes sense to work on it, since I think supporting long obsolete computers and poor virtual machines will take away time from doing interesting new things in Chimera for people who have suitable computer setups for doing graphics.  There is no way around the broken selection when using the GDI driver that I know of other than using a very old Chimera version.
> 
>  Thinking ahead, we are working on Chimera 2, and it will require at least OpenGL 3.3 — it will not show or do anything on GDI graphics.  So we are going to be setting some minimum graphics requirements for Chimera 2 that not all computers will meet.
> 
>    Tom
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 30, 2015, at 6:04 PM, Hurt, Darrell (NIH/NIAID) [E] wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Tom,
>> 
>> Thanks again for this great troubleshooting.
>> 
>> I've tested as you described and here are my results:
>> 
>> (1) Ctrl-click to deselect after a "Select All": this works as expected
>> 
>> (2) Ctrl-left-drag does present a box and does select whatever is enclosed
>> in the selection box
>> 
>> (3) I don't have access to the actual Windows machine -- the RDS machine
>> is itself a virtual machine.
>> 
>> (4) The results in the "Gathered Information" box reveal the problem: it
>> is using the GDI renderer! (Full details at the bottom of the email.)
>> 
>> (5) Hover does not reveal any information.
>> 
>> This then begs the question: how to fix the problem? Do we just install a
>> better OpenGL renderer on the virtual RDS? Are the following articles on
>> the right track?
>> https://www.vmware.com/support/ws55/doc/ws_vidsound_d3d_enabling_host.html
>> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=vmware_vmwgfx_g3d&num=1
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> Darrell
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> OpenGL Vendor: Microsoft Corporation
>> OpenGL Renderer: GDI Generic
>> OpenGL Version: 1.1.0
>> Manufacturer: VMware, Inc.
>> Model: VMware Virtual Platform
>> TotalPhysicalMemory: 17179398144
>> 
>> ————————————————————
>> Multisampling: False
>> Shadows: False
>> Shadow texture size: 2048
>> Silhouettes: False
>> Depth cue: True
>> Subdivision quality: 1.50
>> Single-layer transparency: True
>> Transparent background: False
>> Shaders supported: False
>> Using shader: False
>> Window size: 535 474
>> Camera mode: mono
>> Orthographic projection: False
>> Center of rotation: front center
>> Near/far clipping: False
>> Key light: True
>> Fill light: True
>> Back light: False
>> Ambient light: 0.20
>> Specular sharpness: 30.00
>> Specular reflectivity: 1.00
>> 
>> ————————————————————
>> AntialiasLines: native
>> AntialiasPoints: native
>> BlendEquation: not supported
>> BlendFuncSeparate: not supported
>> BrokenAttribLocation: native, disabled
>> ChoosePixelFormat: not supported
>> ColorTable: extension
>> CompileAndExecute: native
>> CompiledVertexArray: not supported
>> CubeMap: not supported
>> CullVertex: not supported
>> DrawElementsInstanced: not supported, disabled
>> DrawRangeElements: not supported
>> FBConfig: not supported
>> FBOShadows: native
>> FastMultisampling: not supported, disabled
>> FramebufferMultisample: not supported
>> FramebufferObject: not supported
>> LimitVertexAttribDivisor: native, disabled
>> Multisample: not supported
>> Multitexture: not supported
>> PackedDepthStencil: not supported
>> PalettedTexture: not supported
>> PointParameters: not supported
>> SeamlessCubeMap: not supported
>> SeparateSpecularColor: not supported
>> Shading: not supported
>> Shadows: not supported
>> StereoMultisample: not supported
>> StereoRubberBanding: native
>> Texture3D: not supported
>> TextureColorTable: not supported
>> TextureEdgeClamp: not supported
>> TrustColorLogicBlend: native
>> TrustNormals: native
>> VertexArray: native
>> VertexAttrib: not supported
>> VertexAttribDivisor: not supported
>> VertexBufferObject: not supported
>> WindowPos: not supported
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Darrell Hurt, Ph.D.
>> Acting Chief
>> Bioinformatics and Computational Biosciences Branch (BCBB)
>> OCICB/OSMO/OD/NIAID/NIH
>> 
>> 5601 Fishers Lane, 4A31
>> North Bethesda, MD 20852
>> Office: 240-669-2741
>> Mobile: 301-758-3559Web: BCBB Home Page
>> <http://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/organization/odoffices/omo/ocicb/Pages/bcbb
>> .aspx#niaid_inlineNav_Anchor>
>> Twitter: @niaidbioit <https://twitter.com/niaidbioit> , @NIH3Dprint
>> <https://twitter.com/nih3dprint>
>> 
>> 
>> Disclaimer: The information in this e-mail and any of its attachments is
>> confidential and may contain sensitive information. It should not be used
>> by anyone who is not the original intended recipient. If you have received
>> this e-mail in error please inform the sender and delete it from your
>> mailbox or any other storage devices. National Institute of Allergy and
>> Infectious Diseases shall not accept liability for any statements made
>> that are sender's own and not expressly made on behalf of the NIAID by one
>> of its representatives.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3/30/15 11:51 PM, "Tom Goddard" <goddard at sonic.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Darrell,
>>> 
>>> When you ctrl-left-click in Chimera the mouse pointer changes to a hand
>>> with the index finger pointing to the left while you hold the mouse down.
>>> I guess that is what you mean when you say you see the cursor change to
>>> the hand.  That would indicate that Chimera does get the ctrl-click mouse
>>> event.  So one idea is that Chimera gets the ctrl-click but the x,y
>>> coordinates of the click reported to Chimera are wrong so it doesn’t
>>> select anything.  As a test of this you could select everything (Select /
>>> Select All) then try a ctrl-click to select something and see if that
>>> deselects everything, as if the click was on the background.  It seems
>>> unlikely the mouse pointer position could be reported wrong since that
>>> would probably make pressing on menus and buttons not work as well.
>>> Another test, when you ctrl-left-drag Chimera draws a green outline box —
>>> does that appear?  Another idea is that Chimera gets the ctrl-click but
>>> in never gets the mouse release when it actually does the selection.
>>> Have you tested that ctrl-click select actually works on the Windows
>>> machine?  If Windows falls back to the archaic Microsoft GDI graphics
>>> driver, then I believe ctrl-click does not work.  You can find out what
>>> driver Chimera is using with Chimera menu entry Help / Report a Bug…
>>> under “Gathered Information”.  One last thing to check.  When you hover
>>> the mouse over and atom, a popup window shows the name of the atom.  That
>>> uses the same Chimera code as ctrl-click selection to figure out what
>>> atom the pointer is over.  Does that work?
>>> 
>>>    Tom
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 30, 2015, at 3:50 PM, Hurt, Darrell (NIH/NIAID) [E]  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Chimera friends,
>>>> 
>>>> I'm using the Microsoft Remote Desktop Mac client to connect to a
>>>> Microsoft Remote Desktop Server (an "RDS" running Windows Server 2012
>>>> R2). That RDS is serving out a Windows 8 environment and I'm running the
>>>> latest Chimera release in it very successfully. Except that selection by
>>>> picking (Ctrl-mouse_button_1) and centering (Ctrl-mouse_button_3) does
>>>> NOT work. When I try to select by picking, the cursor changes from the
>>>> arrow to hand momentarily. I also get this behavior when connecting to
>>>> the RDS via any other client. Any thoughts on what might be happening
>>>> and how to fix it?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Darrell
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Darrell Hurt, Ph.D.
>>>> Acting Chief
>>>> Bioinformatics and Computational Biosciences Branch (BCBB)
>>>> OCICB/OSMO/OD/NIAID/NIH
>>>> 
>>>> 5601 Fishers Lane, 4A31
>>>> North Bethesda, MD 20852
>>>> Office: 240-669-2741
>>>> Mobile: 301-758-3559
>>>> Web: BCBB Home 
>>>> Page<http://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/organization/odoffices/omo/ocicb/Page
>>>> s/bcbb.aspx#niaid_inlineNav_Anchor>
>>>> Twitter: @niaidbioit<https://twitter.com/niaidbioit> ,
>>>> @NIH3Dprint<https://twitter.com/nih3dprint>
>>>> 
>>>> Disclaimer: The information in this e-mail and any of its attachments
>>>> is confidential and may contain sensitive information. It should not be
>>>> used by anyone who is not the original intended recipient. If you have
>>>> received this e-mail in error please inform the sender and delete it
>>>> from your mailbox or any other storage devices. National Institute of
>>>> Allergy and Infectious Diseases shall not accept liability for any
>>>> statements made that are sender's own and not expressly made on behalf
>>>> of the NIAID by one of its representatives.
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Chimera-users mailing list
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> 