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    Hi Sumitro,<br>
    <br>
      I made an image in the style of your image (1a0m.jpg below) using
    Chimera 1.6.1 and I think it captures the effect of your Chimera 1.5
    image (ep.png) very well.  The difference is that in your image
    where the ribbon crosses itself you can sometimes see through the
    top ribbon.  Actually the top ribbon is only transparent in your
    image in about half of the crossings due to a Chimera 1.5 ribbon
    transparency bug.  In the Chimera 1.6.1 image the ribbon is fully
    opaque so you do not see through it at places where it crosses
    itself.  I think this produces a better image with less visual depth
    confusion.  Also I think adding silhouette edges as I did in
    1a0m_edges.jpg below improves the perception of ribbon crossovers
    further.  I think the main virtue of your image is that the ribbon
    that is further back is lighter in color so it draws less
    attention.  That is achieved by depth cueing which is the same in
    Chimera 1.6 and 1.5.  My image perhaps does not illustrate depth
    cueing as well as yours since I used a different PDB model (didn't
    have yours) and in my view it doesn't vary as much in depth.<br>
    <br>
        Tom<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    -------- Original Message --------
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          <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Subject: </th>
          <td>Re: [Chimera-users] semi-transparent ribbon behind
            semi-transparent surface</td>
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          <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Date: </th>
          <td>Sun, 13 May 2012 18:19:39 +0800</td>
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          <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">From: </th>
          <td>Sumitro Harjanto <br>
          </td>
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          <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">To: </th>
          <td>Tom Goddard</td>
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    <br>
    <br>
    Hi Tom, I've attached an image, it's something like this, can you
    view it? thanks!
    <div><br>
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    <div>cheers,</div>
    <div>Sumitro<br>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">On 12 May 2012 00:58, Tom Goddard<span
          dir="ltr"></span> wrote:<br>
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          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Hi Sumitro,<br>
            <br>
              It is hard to completely understand your problem without
            seeing an example image made with Chimera 1.5 using the
            technique you described.  If you provide such an image we
            might have suggestions about how to make something very
            similar in the latest Chimera.  The image link you send
            before gives permission denied.<span class="HOEnZb"><font
                color="#888888"><br>
                <br>
                    Tom<br>
                <br>
                <br>
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                <div class="h5">Hi Elaine, 
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>thanks for the reply. I believe you exactly
                    described what I did with this paragraph:</div>
                  "In Chimera 1.5  each surface could have its own
                  single-layer transparency.  Thus you could still have
                  multiple transparent layers overall, but only the top
                  layer of each surface.  I'm guessing the image is
                  something like that (I don't have permission to view
                  it)."<br>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div>Sadly, I resorted to re-installing CHIMERA 1.5
                    cos even if I use pastel colours in Chimera 1.6, the
                    effects were far from what I've got using the
                    multiple-single layer transparency previously. Is
                    there any plan to make the transparency setting more
                    customisable in the future? that will be of great
                    help! thanks!</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Cheers,</div>
                  <div>Sum</div>
                  <div><br>
                    <div class="gmail_quote">On 4 May 2012 00:18, Elaine
                      Meng <span dir="ltr"></span> wrote:<br>
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                        0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
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                        <div>
                          <div><br>
                            On May 3, 2012, at 8:05 AM, Sumitro Harjanto
                            wrote:<br>
                            <br>
                            > Hi Elaine,<br>
                            > I used to use CHIMERA 1.5 to generate
                            some molecular images. and I was able to
                            show a "hint of shadow" of ribbon behind a
                            semitransparent molecular surface. but I
                            realised that I can no longer do that from
                            Chimera 1.6 onwards. I have tried fiddling
                            with the new "single layer transparency"
                            value, but either option did not provide me
                            with the visual effect that I could
                            previously get in chimera 1.5. when I turned
                            off the single layer transparency, the
                            molecular surface became very messy with
                            multiple shades and the color is visibly
                            darker. but If I leave it on, the
                            semi-transparent ribbon was not displayed at
                            all. is there anyway that I can achieve a
                            similar effect in Chimera 1.6? i.e if you're
                            wondering what effect I am talking about
                            here is an example: <a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/emmm.201200213/asset/image_n/nfig004.jpg?v=1&t=h1rxtmm2&s=152573d22f1245472bbcb8ef11b0fcc757548517"
                              target="_blank">http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/emmm.201200213/asset/image_n/nfig004.jpg?v=1&t=h1rxtmm2&s=152573d22f1245472bbcb8ef11b0fcc757548517</a><br>
                            > Thanks, Elaine!<br>
                            > Cheers,<br>
                            > Sumitro<br>
                            <br>
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                        Hi Sumitro!<br>
                        In Chimera 1.5  each surface could have its own
                        single-layer transparency.  Thus you could still
                        have multiple transparent layers overall, but
                        only the top layer of each surface.  I'm
                        guessing the image is something like that (I
                        don't have permission to view it).<br>
                        <br>
                        In Chimera 1.6 the choices are only either a
                        single layer of transparency, or all transparent
                        layers.<br>
                        <br>
                        In Chimera 1.5 if you turn off single-layer
                        transparency for each surface, the result is the
                        same as in Chimera 1.6 if you turn off global
                        single-layer transparency.  However, I realize
                        that does not help, since you don't want to show
                        all layers (it's often ugly, as you describe).<br>
                        <br>
                        I don't know if there is any way to get exactly
                        what you had before, but in 1.6 I suggest trying
                        this:  use single-layer transparency (which is
                        the default), make only the surface transparent,
                        keep the ribbon opaque.  If you want the ribbon
                        to be less bold, try making it a pastel color.<br>
                        <br>
                        I am not involved in the graphics programming --
                        I CC'd the list since the other developers may
                        have suggestions (and other users might find the
                        discussion informative).<br>
                        I hope this helps,<br>
                        Elaine<br>
                        ----------<br>
                        Elaine C. Meng, Ph.D.<br>
                        UCSF Computer Graphics Lab (Chimera team) and
                        Babbitt Lab<br>
                        Department of Pharmaceutical Chemistry<br>
                        University of California, San Francisco<br>
                        <br>
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