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    Here is the Chimera 1.6.1 session file for the image I sent in the
    previous message (1a0m.jpg) in case you want to see what settings
    were used.<br>
    <br>
        Tom<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:4FB144E4.7010705@sonic.net" type="cite">
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      Hi Sumitro,<br>
      <br>
        I made an image in the style of your image (1a0m.jpg below)
      using Chimera 1.6.1 and I think it captures the effect of your
      Chimera 1.5 image (ep.png) very well.  The difference is that in
      your image where the ribbon crosses itself you can sometimes see
      through the top ribbon.  Actually the top ribbon is only
      transparent in your image in about half of the crossings due to a
      Chimera 1.5 ribbon transparency bug.  In the Chimera 1.6.1 image
      the ribbon is fully opaque so you do not see through it at places
      where it crosses itself.  I think this produces a better image
      with less visual depth confusion.  Also I think adding silhouette
      edges as I did in 1a0m_edges.jpg below improves the perception of
      ribbon crossovers further.  I think the main virtue of your image
      is that the ribbon that is further back is lighter in color so it
      draws less attention.  That is achieved by depth cueing which is
      the same in Chimera 1.6 and 1.5.  My image perhaps does not
      illustrate depth cueing as well as yours since I used a different
      PDB model (didn't have yours) and in my view it doesn't vary as
      much in depth.<br>
      <br>
          Tom<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      -------- Original Message --------
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            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Subject:
            </th>
            <td>Re: [Chimera-users] semi-transparent ribbon behind
              semi-transparent surface</td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Date: </th>
            <td>Sun, 13 May 2012 18:19:39 +0800</td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">From: </th>
            <td>Sumitro Harjanto <br>
            </td>
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            <th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">To: </th>
            <td>Tom Goddard</td>
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      <br>
      <br>
      Hi Tom, I've attached an image, it's something like this, can you
      view it? thanks!
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>cheers,</div>
      <div>Sumitro<br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On 12 May 2012 00:58, Tom Goddard<span
            dir="ltr"></span> wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Hi Sumitro,<br>
              <br>
                It is hard to completely understand your problem without
              seeing an example image made with Chimera 1.5 using the
              technique you described.  If you provide such an image we
              might have suggestions about how to make something very
              similar in the latest Chimera.  The image link you send
              before gives permission denied.<span class="HOEnZb"><font
                  color="#888888"><br>
                  <br>
                      Tom<br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
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                  <div class="h5">Hi Elaine, 
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>thanks for the reply. I believe you exactly
                      described what I did with this paragraph:</div>
                    "In Chimera 1.5  each surface could have its own
                    single-layer transparency.  Thus you could still
                    have multiple transparent layers overall, but only
                    the top layer of each surface.  I'm guessing the
                    image is something like that (I don't have
                    permission to view it)."<br>
                    <div> </div>
                    <div>Sadly, I resorted to re-installing CHIMERA 1.5
                      cos even if I use pastel colours in Chimera 1.6,
                      the effects were far from what I've got using the
                      multiple-single layer transparency previously. Is
                      there any plan to make the transparency setting
                      more customisable in the future? that will be of
                      great help! thanks!</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>Cheers,</div>
                    <div>Sum</div>
                    <div><br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">On 4 May 2012 00:18,
                        Elaine Meng <span dir="ltr"></span> wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div>
                            <div><br>
                              On May 3, 2012, at 8:05 AM, Sumitro
                              Harjanto wrote:<br>
                              <br>
                              > Hi Elaine,<br>
                              > I used to use CHIMERA 1.5 to generate
                              some molecular images. and I was able to
                              show a "hint of shadow" of ribbon behind a
                              semitransparent molecular surface. but I
                              realised that I can no longer do that from
                              Chimera 1.6 onwards. I have tried fiddling
                              with the new "single layer transparency"
                              value, but either option did not provide
                              me with the visual effect that I could
                              previously get in chimera 1.5. when I
                              turned off the single layer transparency,
                              the molecular surface became very messy
                              with multiple shades and the color is
                              visibly darker. but If I leave it on, the
                              semi-transparent ribbon was not displayed
                              at all. is there anyway that I can achieve
                              a similar effect in Chimera 1.6? i.e if
                              you're wondering what effect I am talking
                              about here is an example: <a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/emmm.201200213/asset/image_n/nfig004.jpg?v=1&t=h1rxtmm2&s=152573d22f1245472bbcb8ef11b0fcc757548517"
                                target="_blank">http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/emmm.201200213/asset/image_n/nfig004.jpg?v=1&t=h1rxtmm2&s=152573d22f1245472bbcb8ef11b0fcc757548517</a><br>
                              > Thanks, Elaine!<br>
                              > Cheers,<br>
                              > Sumitro<br>
                              <br>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          Hi Sumitro!<br>
                          In Chimera 1.5  each surface could have its
                          own single-layer transparency.  Thus you could
                          still have multiple transparent layers
                          overall, but only the top layer of each
                          surface.  I'm guessing the image is something
                          like that (I don't have permission to view
                          it).<br>
                          <br>
                          In Chimera 1.6 the choices are only either a
                          single layer of transparency, or all
                          transparent layers.<br>
                          <br>
                          In Chimera 1.5 if you turn off single-layer
                          transparency for each surface, the result is
                          the same as in Chimera 1.6 if you turn off
                          global single-layer transparency.  However, I
                          realize that does not help, since you don't
                          want to show all layers (it's often ugly, as
                          you describe).<br>
                          <br>
                          I don't know if there is any way to get
                          exactly what you had before, but in 1.6 I
                          suggest trying this:  use single-layer
                          transparency (which is the default), make only
                          the surface transparent, keep the ribbon
                          opaque.  If you want the ribbon to be less
                          bold, try making it a pastel color.<br>
                          <br>
                          I am not involved in the graphics programming
                          -- I CC'd the list since the other developers
                          may have suggestions (and other users might
                          find the discussion informative).<br>
                          I hope this helps,<br>
                          Elaine<br>
                          ----------<br>
                          Elaine C. Meng, Ph.D.<br>
                          UCSF Computer Graphics Lab (Chimera team) and
                          Babbitt Lab<br>
                          Department of Pharmaceutical Chemistry<br>
                          University of California, San Francisco<br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
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