[chimera-dev] monitor suitable for stereo visualization in Chimera

[Wei Zhang]

Thanks Tom.

Yes, I see your notes on the Chimera webpage. I asked the question because
I will put the Linux workstation in the same room of a PC.
I do have a Windows 10 machine and I am thinking of testing out ChimeraX
and VR.

Cheers,

Wei

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:42 PM Tom Goddard <goddard at sonic.net> wrote:

> Hi Wei,
>
>   The computers can run different operating systems.  But almost all VR is
> done on Windows 10.  It can be made to work on Linux and Mac but there are
> many problems using VR on those operating systems.
>
>   Tom
>
> On Jan 30, 2020, at 7:35 PM, Wei Zhang <zhangwei at umn.edu> wrote:
>
> 
> Tom,
>
> This is terrific and so exciting!
> The movie you attached in the previous email must be what the second
> person see during a "meeting" session.
> About the meeting to sync the to sessions. All the computers have to run
> on the same type of operating system, ie.
>  not mixed with PC-Mac-Linux, right?
>
> I am happy I reached out to the Chimera group about stereo display and now
> see this new opportunity.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Wei
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:34 PM Tom Goddard <goddard at sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Wei,
>>
>>   We do routinely do 2 person VR sessions, and have sometimes done 3 or
>> 4.  Each VR headset has to be connected to a separate computer.  This is a
>> limitation of the current VR driver technology where it only allows
>> communicating with one attached headset.  So for two or more people, each
>> start ChimeraX and VR on separate computers and use a command "meeting" to
>> sync the to sessions.  Each person sees the other persons VR hand
>> controller cones and an image of the other person's face and these track
>> the person's movement so it is easy to point to parts of the structures,
>> and each person can move the models and change them.  I should make a video
>> showing multiperson VR like that opioids video.  Here is another VR video
>> that shows some 2 person VR
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4lDzUEUFL0&feature=youtu.be
>>
>> More about VR for molecules and cells is at the UCSF VR web site
>>
>> https://vr.ucsf.edu
>>
>> I develop the ChimeraX VR capabilities and they have a long ways to go,
>> but also a lot of potential.  The RTX 2080 Ti is the best graphics you can
>> get for VR.
>>
>>   Tom
>>
>>
>> On Jan 30, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Wei Zhang <zhangwei at umn.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> This movie itself is magic! You can merge the operator with the molecule
>> in the movie ---- VR world and the real world are merged together, that is
>> amazing!
>>
>> It is so delightful to see this movie, making me want to go away from the
>> old system right now and embrace the new one.
>>
>> With the VR system,  is it possible to have two people see the same view
>> of the object as we did with the old system? I guess it takes two sets of
>> VR system, but without a mouse cursor, how can we see the same view and
>> points to the same place?
>>
>> Thanks so much for the detailed and professional description about old
>> and new stereo  systems. I guess when the old technology is dying out, we
>> have no choice but to keep up with the trend. I have to read and learn more
>> in order to make a wise decision. Your email is a good start.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Wei
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 6:49 PM Tom Goddard <goddard at sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Wei,
>>>
>>>   Unfortunately stereoscopic visualization is dying out, hardware
>>> vendors are not supporting it.  Nvidia 3D Vision which was LCD shutter
>>> glasses that worked with many gaming displays (fast refresh displays, e.g.
>>> 120 Hz or 144 Hz) was dropped by Nvidia last April, they removed support
>>> for it from their graphics drivers.  The Zalman row interleaved displays
>>> were discontinued long ago.  Here is old info about Nvidia 3D for Chimera,
>>> and also old information about PyMol stereo display
>>>
>>> https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/Outreach/technotes/3dvision.html
>>>
>>> https://pymolwiki.org/index.php/Stereo_3D_Display_Options
>>>
>>>   We still have a stereo projector system working with Chimera and
>>> ChimeraX that uses RealD CE4S LCD shutter glasses (
>>> http://www.colorlinkjapan.com/brand/product/ce4s.html) and an old
>>> StereoGraphics EXXR IR emitter (
>>> http://www.ultimate3dheaven.com/crst.html).  The emitter connects to a
>>> 3-pin DIN connector available on some old Nvidia Quadro graphics cards.  We
>>> use a P6000 which has a daughter board to provide the 3-pin DIN signal that
>>> syncs the glasses with the left and right eye displayed images.  I'm not
>>> sure any of this is sold anymore, but maybe you could get it and maybe it
>>> would work, but not with 2080Ti graphics.
>>>
>>>   We use virtual reality for stereoscopic display in ChimeraX (
>>> https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/chimerax/docs/user/vr.html).  Here's a
>>> YouTube video showing it being used (
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCotNi6213w).  This isn't very similar
>>> to the older stereo systems because it blocks your view of everything and
>>> requires all new user interface since you can't use the mouse and keyboard
>>> easily with VR.  But it does provide even better stereoscopic depth
>>> perception than the old systems.
>>>
>>>   In short, you can probably do old stereo with lcd or polarized glasses
>>> if you are going to go to a great deal of trouble working with unsupported
>>> hardware.  Since no one uses this stuff, the graphics drivers also have
>>> lots of trouble delivering the images -- we have problems every year
>>> keeping our stereo projection system working in the face of updated
>>> graphics drivers that no longer work with stereo and 2 displays.
>>>
>>>   If you still want to pursue the old stereo, Ken Satuyshur at
>>> University of Wisconsin has a few systems working and you could ask him for
>>> more info.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 29, 2020, at 7:57 PM, Wei Zhang <zhangwei at umn.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Elaine and Tom,
>>>
>>> I am trying to build a GPU workstation that mostly focuses on
>>> computation, ie. I want to have 4 2080Ti GPU cards. But I think these GPU
>>> cards do not support 3D visualization. One colleague of mine has such a
>>> workstation and he uses Zaleman monitor and can display the stereo map
>>> using Chimera. Zakeman monitor is out of market for a number of years, I am
>>> wondering if you are aware of any other type monitor that can be used for
>>> this purpose.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Wei
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chimera-dev mailing list
>>> Chimera-dev at cgl.ucsf.edu
>>> http://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimera-dev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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